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GaaLee mpreg? [Feb. 13th, 2008|09:31 pm]
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[greatcloudninja]
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Poll #1138220 mpreg poll

Just out of curiosity, how many people here are fans of mpreg?

Totally!
32(29.6%)
It's all right, I guess.
11(10.2%)
I think it's pretty dumb.
13(12.0%)
Under the right circumstances.
45(41.7%)
It's disgusting and shouldn't be done!
7(6.5%)
I'm asking because a friend and I have been creating kids for the Naruto characters, and some of the kids are products of mpreg. We have Gaara bearing Lee's child, a daughter named Midori (XD), as well as SasuNaru/NaruSasu and IruKaka. I'm just curious to see how people here would react to fanfiction or fanart of mpreg-kids, or if anyone has ideas about how mpreg should work. (We have a fairly technical idea, but for now we're going with the excuse of "They're ninja like that.")

For anyone that's interested, here's what our "mpreg science" entails: basically, a combination of genetic therapy, a "parasite" that creates an artificial womb, and liberal use of Oiroke no Jutsu (or Sexy Jutsu, if you prefer). Between Tsunade and Sakura, using Suigetsu as a preliminary test subject, a parasite is created that allows a man to carry a womb. Since the Sexy Jutsu is purely cosmetic, it would have to be slightly altered under the supervision of the medical nins to make sure that it can create what is necessary; namely, a vagina and cervix to attach to said artificial womb. Then, the "mother" would have his genetic material transferred from a sperm cell into an egg cell that has had its genetic material removed. After this point, the egg can be injected and fertilized normally, or it can be fertilized in-vitro to guarantee that it is viable before being implanted into the womb through the Sexy Jutsu-created vagina and cervix. Both before and during the "pregnancy", the "mother" would have to take hormone supplements to ensure that the baby develops normally. Then, when the embryo has fully developed, a c-section is performed to remove the womb, leaving him just as he was before the pregnancy (except for a scar on the stomach and any other cosmetic problems, such as stretch marks).

Now, granted, this is still in the works, but so far this is pretty much what we've figured out so far. We're kind of pulling in from the manga "Love Pistols" with the idea of the artificial womb, which in that series is created by a worm forced into the anus of the male chosen to carry the child. We also pulled in some ideas from the "Trauma Center" series of video games, with the parasite being inspired by G.U.I.L.T. and Stigma from that series.
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Comments:
[User Picture]From: oceanica
2008-02-14 04:35 am (UTC)

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I'm not so much opposed to the concept of Mpreg, but I have never seen it done well, decently, or even half-decently -- every single Mpreg I've had the misfortune to see has been really terrible.
[User Picture]From: anti_paragon
2008-02-14 04:46 am (UTC)

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Well, since you're asking for opinions...

I've yet to read a fic where MPreg is portrayed wonderfully for either of the following reasons:

a) Teenybopper writer. ughh. *stab*
b) Portrayed horribly (made no sense).
c) I am a woman of science, and even though this is a make-believe word, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around it.

But in any case, after seeing my state's governor pregnant in Junior, I'm scarred enough to handle anything. Seriously. Arnold Schwarzenegger booming "I vant ma beybe!" broke my brain. XD

So my biggest argument would be, if it's written by the right author and the situations are believable enough to exist even in the make-believe world we love, then full steam ahead.
[User Picture]From: greatcloudninja
2008-02-14 07:05 am (UTC)

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We actually thought of Junior in the process of developing our "mpreg science". And if you're interested in taking a look at my writing style, check out my journal, or my previous post on this comm. ^^
[User Picture]From: anti_paragon
2008-02-14 08:59 am (UTC)

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*laughs hysterically*

I'm so sorry I didn't introduce myself! It's me, twilaa! From Y! X3
[User Picture]From: greatcloudninja
2008-02-14 09:13 am (UTC)

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Oh, hi!! I'm gonna go friend you now. X3
From: scarlet_pencil
2008-02-14 04:54 am (UTC)

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In theory, I have no problem with MPreg.

In practice, out of hundreds of fics, I have only ever seen it done well once. XD (And that almost wasn't MPreg, because Naruto was using Sexy Jutsu.)

Even if the mechanics of birth are done right, I usually find that the children are either Sueish or just there as a token to complete the "happy family" picture. "Of course they have kids! They're IN LOVE! People in LOVE have KITTENS and PUPPIES and KIDS!"

The idea is fine to me, it's just that no one ever does it right. EVER. XD
From: omgzombieslol
2008-02-14 04:58 am (UTC)

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I have no strong opinion towards Mpreg, my only problem with it is like the others have said so far: It's very rarely ever written well. I've only read one Mpreg fanfic so far that I enjoyed, and it was because of the style, and it stayed in character.
[User Picture]From: animeartistjo
2008-02-14 05:23 am (UTC)

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As long as it's well written, the boy isn't a woman, and it's believable. Meaning the pregnant boy's still IC. Check out ff.net SelfRelience featuring NaruSasu with preggers Sasu-chan for a good example. Harry Potter's Harry/Draco has some pretty well done ones.
[User Picture]From: greatcloudninja
2008-02-14 07:07 am (UTC)

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I love Self-Reliance; it's what inspired me to write an mpreg in the first place. But my friend and I agreed that, at least in the beginning, Naruto probably wouldn't have known enough about the female anatomy to create a fully functioning female body. Hence our "mpreg science" and the need to alter the jutsu with the supervision of either Tsunade or Sakura.
[User Picture]From: cgaussie
2008-02-14 06:11 am (UTC)

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To be honest I'm a fan of it, but only if it is handled correctly. That, unfortunately, is hard to come across.

Meanwhile, myself and zorame have written into one certain LeeGaa alternate universe when things turn out drastically different, and there is mpreg. It isn't a part of Breakthroughs, though. Hence the 'other' alternate universe.

This now makes me curious how many of you would be willing to read it...
[User Picture]From: honjou
2008-02-14 09:26 am (UTC)

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I, for one, would be willing to read anything the two of you posted. :3
[User Picture]From: anti_paragon
2008-02-15 02:54 am (UTC)

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I second that. ^3^

And your icon is win.
[User Picture]From: honjou
2008-02-14 09:30 am (UTC)

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I'm perfectly okay with MPreg, but I hardly ever see completed stories. I tried to make my own KakaIru one, but I...eh heh...got bored with it. I think it can be done well, particularly with the right science (or alchemy, which might be more accurate, I don't know), but it's a task few dare accept. Frankly, I wish more people would brave them.

(I make my guys on The Sims 2 pregnant all the time *cough* But that's another world entirely.)
[User Picture]From: xiaou_xijiang
2008-02-14 12:37 pm (UTC)

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^dude how do you do that?

I am okay with male preg, as long as it doesn't suck horribly. Like having a good reason for males being pregnant in the first place. That's a biggy. No it "just happened" or whatever.
So there's a lot that are just awkward and weird and some that are brilliantly done. So it depends.
cgaussie: I'd love to read that story.
[User Picture]From: honjou
2008-02-14 06:23 pm (UTC)

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do what, make my male sims pregnant? :3 It's a lovely tool called 'InSIMenator'

http://www.insimenator.net/forumdisplay.php?f=38

It's sort of a game hack (but not in a bad way, oh no). It takes mechanics from the game itself and sort of helps you cheat. There's also many other hacks, like this one: http://box156.bluehost.com/~aestudi1/forums/inteenimater/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=7
'Preg for all genders'

[/thread hijack]

Using the InSIMenator, I turn lot jealousy off and have my OT3's take turns with each other, make the guys have babies, and other fun stuff. If you just want male pregnancy without all the other stuff, I'd recommend the second link. There are many sims forums out there with tips on how to do stuff. ^_^
[User Picture]From: hara
2008-02-14 12:51 pm (UTC)

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I generally don't read mpreg because... Well, I've never seen it done well, though I suppose, in theory, it could be. It's not even the science of it that bothers me so much as usually the writing involves bad characterization. Incredibly manly men suddenly become weepy and helpless seems to be the general theme. Yes, hormones are powerful, but not enough to change the essential nature of someone's character.

This is just personal opinion on the Gaa/Lee mpreg: while I can see Gaara adopting under certain circumstances, I cannot see him willingly taking on the role of a mother (pregnancy) considering his own incredibly traumatic feelings/past revolving around his own mother's pregnancy and death. I don't think he would ever wish to inflict the possibility of similar trauma on another child, and he would probably see "experimental male pregnancy technique" and stop right at "experimental" with no desire to explore further. I would see Lee as much more likely to be willing to bear a child in that couple (though one wonders if he'd be able to take it easy for full term).

However if you do address the emotional issues, not just explain anything with hormones, but explain why Gaara wants a child of his so badly he'd risk circumstances similar to his own birth (as far as experimenting is similar) to have that child be his, I think it would make a very interesting read.

I won't really touch KakaIru because I have never understood the pairing, but if you go into extreme emotional depth and character development and motivation beyond just a desire for babies--For example, ninja villages have so many orphans, why aren't these couples adopting instead?--then I think it would make a very gripping emotional saga.

But it will be tough as hell to pull off. If you do pull if off though, all hats off too you.

As for fanart of mpreg... Fanart I always like, because art, unlike fic, lets the viewer explain a lot on their own, so everyone gets a little something different from art, with the added benefit it tends to appeal to a much broader audience.
[User Picture]From: greatcloudninja
2008-02-14 04:26 pm (UTC)

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While I can see where you're coming from with the Gaa/Lee pairings, the simple fact of the matter is that with the science we've come up with, it would be impossible for Lee to carry the child, since he doesn't have the ability to mold his chakra for ninjutsu or genjutsu. However, the adoption idea does make sense. ^^

And about adopting orphans... Well, most of the orphans, at least in Konoha, were a result of the Kyuubi attack (that we have seen; that's not to say that there aren't more, just we don't know about them). And in that case, they would already be fully grown by the time the mpreg would be happening (After all, Naruto was one of the youngest orphans, and he's one of the "mommies". XD) We have really thought this out, and we've decided that we want to make the mpreg. But, granted, it's not all mpreg--the majority of the pairings we have set up are actually het pairings, and in our timeline, the first pairing to actually experiment with the gene therapy is Sakura and Karin (*cough*CRACK*cough*). So it's not that we don't like the orphans, it's just that so far, the only child we know about that would be of an adoptable age is Asuma and Kurenai's child, and he wouldn't need to be adopted unless something happened to Kurenai.
[User Picture]From: hara
2008-02-15 01:27 am (UTC)

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Sounds like you guys really have this planned out, which is definitely something most mpregs don't seem to have going for them. So I will lay aside my trepidation and wait for the fic to speak for itself. You never know, it could make a convert out of me. =)

I don't know about the current orphan situation in the hidden villages, but a ninja's life is pretty dangerous, so it wouldn't surprise me if even without the Kyuubi there are still and always will be a higher number of orphans in the ninja villages then would be expected elsewhere.

As for Sakura and Karin >.> that is totally crack and I'm afraid it sounds super appealing at the same time. As well as the lure of what sort of parents each pairing will make, and what sort of children they will raise. I'm not against the idea of mpreg really, I've just been scared by the many badly executed examples of it.

When will we get a peek at the first chapter?
[User Picture]From: greatcloudninja
2008-02-15 01:32 am (UTC)

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I'm in the process of writing it as we speak, so hopefully soon. Though tests are getting in the way >.
[User Picture]From: elfinmouse
2008-02-14 02:52 pm (UTC)

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I got here through the NarutoNews community, and thought this was an interesting question.

I love m-preg, but unfortunately it is very rarely well done at all. The authors usually butcher the characters and create vague or outrageous reasons for the pregancy occuring. One Ita/naru m-preg I read, though quite good, simply had an authors note at the beginning that said 'In this AU boys can get pregnant' as all the explination for it. In another fandom, I never read it, but I heard someone else complaining about bad m-preg mention one where the character gave birth out of their elbow.

Like the person who rather disgustedly refereed to that fic, I think the main reason for bad m-preg is the author's discomfort with pregnancy, and/or lack of knowledge of it. Most likely, the majority of these really bad m-pregs, like most other bad-fic, are written by people who are really young. Being so young, they probably don't really have a proper grasp on relationships, aside from eventually there need to be children, thus they rush through the process to avoid it, getting straight to the completed family.

As to your "m-preg science", I suppose that could work - though the parasite thing is a bit creepy. Honestly, I really don't like stories that use orioke no jutsu as an m-preg prop. The only one I ever read that was believable and well written was a Neji/Naru, called Hush I believe.

Another problem with m-preg is that people simply get far too elaborate with it, coming up with complex explinations and techniques for it. Phoenixdownseven very effectively used the 'Kyuubi is a hermaphroditic demon' plot in the sasu/naru Beauty in the Breakdown. Giving a good plausable reasoning for a simple explination - in Beauty it was that Naruto and Kyuubi's dna was beginning to fuse, which explained the uterus and Naruto's frequent clawed and fanged transformations - and focusing more on the characters can produce a very good fic.

An even more simple explination, is to just follow natural human physiology. All humans are female, it's only later in the development stages that they become male. It's not entirely implausable that there would be those who did not entirely develop proporly, in-fact there are natural hermaphordites in the world, though I don't believe they are reproductively viable as both a male and female. It wouldn't take much effort to turn that into a good m-preg reasoning. Men do actually have the "space' down there' for an extra opening, and there is nothing that implies a man wouldn't have room for a uterus.
[User Picture]From: greatcloudninja
2008-02-14 04:38 pm (UTC)

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You're exactly right about men having the space for carrying a child, and thank you for pointing out some good mpreg fics. But the problem is that we don't want to "steal" any ideas that other people have used, considering the prevalence of art theft and such recently, people are much more aware of when someone uses an idea that's already been used in another story. And also, given that at the time period the story would take place, Naruto is the only person with a demon's chakra--meaning that the "Kyuubi being hermaphroditic" would only work for him. While that is a logcial reason for Naruto being a "mother", we see Sasuke as wanting to use every opportunity to pass on his Sharingan--even giving birth to a child. Plus, the statistics of men being natural hermaphrodites makes the idea of more than one being in a village as nearly impossible (unless, of course, it was a problem caused by some sort of exposure to natural radiation).

All that being said, we really want to focus more on the characters themselves--the mpreg will be written as a fanfiction, but it will focus more on Sasuke and Naruto rather than on anyone else. We plan on making a LiveJournal community for the children we've created, and the information will be put up there, but it will only be a small part of the story (kind of like when a kid asks how they were born).
[User Picture]From: elfinmouse
2008-02-14 05:21 pm (UTC)

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I don't think you should worry about "stealing". People blow things way out of proportion when it comes to that subject. What you need to do is take an idea and make it your own. Using Beauty as an example again, that's only one of probably twenty ways you could use Kyuubi as an m-preg device. If you used word for word, reason for reason that authors version of it, yes that would be stealing - but apply a bit of your own imagination and style, and you can have something completely different.

And I'm rather glad to hear you're going to be focusing on the characters. Writing m-preg just to display one's version of how it could happen is boring and another cause of bad m-preg fics. The characters reactions and feelings toward the whole thing are always much more interesting than the mechanics. Really, I'm not sure why you felt the need to make this post; you seem to have a very good handle on all the concepts and spirit of good m-preg fics.
[User Picture]From: greatcloudninja
2008-02-14 05:31 pm (UTC)

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Honestly, I asked the question because of a quote I saw on Fan History Wiki's article on mpreg: "Most yaoi fans frown on the mpreg fics. The few who don't are the butt of constant jokes by the rest." I was just curious what Gaa/Lee fans think of the subject, since I've seen a few bad Gaa/Lee mpreg fics. The fact that a lot of people seem willing to read them either means that we're all part of "the few", or that the quote isn't as true as it was in 2002. XD
[User Picture]From: elfinmouse
2008-02-15 12:40 am (UTC)

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I don't think that quote was ever true. To have written that and believed it, they either couldn't have looked very hard for the m-preg fans, or stuck to one or two fandoms. There is m-preg, very popular m-preg, in many fandoms. There are authors that have semi-cult followings for the fannon worlds they created based on their m-preg fanfiction. And that's nothing to say for the boarderline m-preg that happens in published fiction.

The Wraethu series by Storm Constantine, made of two trilogies, is based on a hermaphroditic race of mutants. Those that have been turned can give blood to a man and he goes through a spiritual and physical change that makes him a 'perfect' mixture of male and female - though they mostly still look like men. And of course there is The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula LeGuin, about an alien race of hermaphrodites that look like men.
A partial explination about Wraethu can be found here:
http://community.livejournal.com/raythoo.310331.html

And there is also the varied versions of m-preg in real life that attract attention. Relatively recently there was a website where a ficticious man was pregnant that got a lot of people thinking about the possibility of men getting pregnant. I believe a while ago there was something about someone creating, or theorizing about the possiblity of creating, a mouse with only two females as parents.

More recently scientific development, they found a way for a fetus to genetically have three parents, a man and two women, to try to find a cure for mitochondrial diseased that are matrilineal. That could easily be modified for two men who wanted to have a gentetic child together.

Here's the article, I think you'd be interested in it given the m-preg method you plan to use in your fic:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7227861.stm
[User Picture]From: stariceling
2008-02-14 06:59 pm (UTC)

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I usually don't like mpreg because, as eveyone else said it's almost never done well. (The only good one I can think of is the Panda Bearia arc for KKM, which was well written and beyond funny.)

On the other hand, the method you're proposing actually sounds very well thought out and reasonable and I'm interested in hearing how it turns out. Which is basically why I voted for #4 instead of #3 or #5.

On the other, other hand, I tend to hate reading fic where everyone in the series has to suddenly pair up and make babies, mpreg or otherwise. Have to say I've never read one of those that turned out well, and I think they're more prolific than mpreg. (But then again I don't know the scope of what you're doing. Usually it just seems to be an excuse to replace the cast with a host of oh-so-interesting OCs.)
[User Picture]From: magiccrackers
2008-02-14 11:00 pm (UTC)

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One of the main beefs i have with any pairing not matter what they get up to is believability, for me it really has to be believable, its why some pairings just do not compute with me.
...i honestly can't see Gaara or Lee being pregnant... Maybe Lee more-so than Gaara because he has that romantic side to his character...i can however see them adopting or maybe even having a surrogate mother and i think there is actually a way now that you can mix dna from same sex couples into a 'blank' egg and then go from there.
I don't really like the idea of sexy no jutsu being used... i think i read a kaka/iru and after the initial interest in Irukas character going through early pregnancy i just got bored...
but then again anything written well can be good no matter how surreal, i would definatly be interested to give it a read but it would have to do more for me than be an mpreg if you know what i mean ^^;

great poll/discussion though :D
From: dmennea
2008-02-15 12:59 pm (UTC)

believable

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I love the idea of male pregnancy but I have seen it done rarely well but leegaara fic desert lullaby is pretty good but I have seen an excellent one in a fake fanfic "the Unexpected" by FAKEimpregnator. Your idea sounds solid though